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Now Is Not a Good Time for a Breakdown (Novel)

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The Resilient Writers Radio Show: Interview with Mel West – Full Episode Transcript

Intro:

Well, hey there, Writer. Welcome to The Resilient Writers Radio Show. I'm your host, Rhonda Douglas. And this is the podcast for writers who want to create and sustain a writing life they love. 

Because let's face it, the writing life has its ups and downs, and we want to not just write, but also to be able to enjoy the process so that we'll spend more time with our butt-in-chair getting those words on the page. 

This podcast is for writers who love books and everything that goes into the making of them. For writers who want to learn and grow in their craft and improve their writing skills. Writers who want to finish their books and get them out into the world so their ideal readers can enjoy them. Writers who want to spend more time in that flow state. 

Writers who want to connect with other writers to celebrate and be in community, in this crazy roller coaster ride, we call the writing life. We are resilient writers. We're writing for the rest of our lives and we're having a good time doing it. So welcome, Writer. I'm so glad you're here. Let's jump right into today's show.

Rhonda:

Well, hey there, Writer. Welcome back to another episode of The Resilient Writers Radio Show. I'm excited today to be talking to Mel West. Mel West is an American author whose work and wide network of family and friends means she invariably lives in between, between cities, between versions of herself and between the lives she's built and the ones she still imagines.

She spends as much time as possible with her husband in their Zurich apartment where she writes, reflects, and attempts to navigate the chaos of modern adulthood. Now Is Not a Good Time for a Breakdown is her debut novel. And that's what we'll be talking about today. Welcome, Mel.

Mel:

Thank you. So excited to be here.

Rhonda:

So you're in Zurich.

Mel:

Yes, I am.

Rhonda:

Oh, fabulous. Okay, great. So talk to me about where the idea for this debut novel came from.

Mel:

Yeah, so I, I like this idea that I learned about from Elizabeth Gilbert's Big Magic that ideas, you know, try to find people who will birth them.

And that for me was my experience with the novel. Like I started to hear kind of snippets of conversations and were like a monologue that I thought was really interesting or funny and just was kind of writing it down, not really understanding where it was coming from or anything.

At the time I was living in Boulder, Colorado, I moved to New York City and suddenly I understood like, oh, The character I've been hearing lives here. Like, this is where she is, this is her life, and everything just started unfolding for me then.

I, you know, in a lot of ways feel like I can't take credit for the idea, but I felt really drawn to it because it was so similar to my experience being a millennial and trying to understand what's going on, my friends. Um it felt very relatable and exciting to just like watch this character and her story unfold. Like the more I walked around the city.

Rhonda:

Yeah. Wow. So, um, are you someone who like plots out an entire novel? Or do you write like a discovery draft and then like tell yourself the story and then kind of revise it and figure out like how close am I now?

Mel:

I would say at the beginning I was just kind of writing very chaotically, like whatever was coming up, whatever felt right. And then I hit a wall and I said, okay, I need to like plot out the plot points, what's coming next, at least something I can start working on.

And I started working on it 2018, 2019, and then kind of let it drop. And I had a really hard time during the pandemic, like...you know, very difficult for me for multiple reasons. And through that time, I kind of realized, wait, this is part of her story too. And that's why I could never quite get to an end. So then I had to go back and revise, but I like to let it be loose at the beginning and then build structure once I feel like I'm losing momentum.

Rhonda:

Kind of know what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah. um And so this is your debut novel. Had you  started writing a novel before or  is this the first time where you thought, oh, I think I've got something like a novel here?

Mel:

I have many half concocted novels sitting somewhere. Half novels in the drawer, yeah. I've always wanted to be a writer. My parents joke about they bound my first book, Where's the Dog, when I was in the first grade.

But then it's like life gets in the way, you start to doubt your ability to be creative or to do anything.  So this is the first one where I really was like, no, I have to like follow this through because it just felt so strong.

Rhonda:

Yeah. Oh, I love that. And so what are the biggest lessons that you learned about writing a novel through writing? I love the title, by the way. Great.

Mel:

Thank you. I tell myself that many times a day. I think, um I mean, I feel like the biggest lesson I learned for me personally, and I think it relates to a lot of people is that a lot of times the reason you don't finish or follow through or even continue is there's so many like fears that go into it, right?

Like, ah you're afraid of when you're writing like, is this stupid? Does this sound good? You know, versus just getting it out on the page and then saying, I'll fix it later. Like, if I don't like it, can fix it later. And then even it took me so long to finish this book. And I finally realized I was afraid of what happens next. Like once I actually finished a novel I've always wanted to do then what happens next?

Um, so I think like what I realized is fears are biggest limiter to actually doing the work, not, you know, your talent or your skills or your follow through. It's really just like, what's going on in the back of your head. You're pretending you don't hear, but it's kind of driving you.

Rhonda:

Yeah, totally. So, tell me a little bit about, so this book is described as darkly humorous. Tell me a little bit about the humor.

Mel:

Um, I think, you know, there's a few different pieces that the main character is not very self aware.  So, you know, a lot of the things she says end up being accidentally funny because she's just not really realizing like, what's coming out of her mouth.

Um, and I mean, just generally like the way I am. I think this obviously influences my writing style is I always try to take anything dark and make it funny. So there's always sort of that humorous spin on things. But then the dark part is like the whole novel is sort of a commentary on the fragility of mental health.

And so while she's dealing with her own mental health struggles, but like I mean, this character has never been to therapy. She doesn't know like any of the tools, any of the talks. it ends up kind of being, she was like a naivety to the way she's approaching things that I think is, you know, sort of cute and amusing. 

Rhonda:

So, so it has this theme running through it of mental health. How did you approach that, like integrating that theme within the novel without like making it to know here I am beating you over the head with you know pay attention to your mental health kind of you know thing did you did you think about that as you were working on the novel.

Mel:

Yeah, I was actually inspired by The Sopranos.

Rhonda:

What? I love that.

Mel:

And how I don't know where I heard this or who said this but I saw some review about The Sopranos and they were talking about how his time with his therapist was actually a really interesting way to let the story unfold because you get to understand him.

And I loved that concept, but originally I was trying to have a therapist and I just felt like that wasn't right for the character. instead, the way you get those deeper thoughts and feelings is through these like little vignettes. So you have the plot flowing. And like I said, she's very unaware. So she's not saying, you know, during like while you're watching it unfold, like, oh, I feel unwell, you know, but then you get this kind of like vignette that's a look inside her mind. Yeah. 

Rhonda:

Okay. So you initially tried having her have a therapist.  Did you find then that it was basically like her telling the therapist the plot of the book, like it was kind of awkward to manage? Because I do think a therapist relationship in a book is a little hard to manage.

Mel:

Yeah, I just felt like  it felt so untrue to her because she, she's really someone who's just surviving. She's like, I have this job, it's very hard. I think maybe I want to get married, I have to date, but I don't know. you So she's just really surviving her life. So it felt so unnatural to her that she would sit there and tell someone this is what's going on. That when I start- Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Rhonda:

Yeah. So were you living in New York at the time you were writing of New York?

Mel:

Yes, I was.

Rhonda:

So um how much does New York kind of, you know, fit into the setting and how did you approach like I don’t know, having the reader feel like, oh yeah, I'm really in a book that is like, I'm  full on in New York with this character.

Mel:

Yeah, so  I don't,  I would say I just like drop little things in that, you know, maybe somebody not in New York will be like, like,  she goes to Madison's grades.  And if you lived in New York before 2020, you know exactly what that is. But even if you didn't, kind of kind of have an idea of what it could be. So just like little touches about, you know, being on the subway and where she lives, but not trying to like, you have to have been to New York and you know, New York, like very well.

Rhonda:

Yeah. I love that. And  I love to read a book that's like set in a place where I don't live, you know? So I, and I think a lot of us read in part for, for that experience of like being somewhere else. Right. Yeah.

Um, so you wrote a draft and then you said you didn't really write during the pandemic. So how long did it take you from like, Oh, I have this great idea. I think it's a novel to actually finishing the novel. Like to be published.

Mel:

The point from like the idea to actually publishing is  nine years.

Rhonda:

Um, but you stopped a few years in there, right?

Mel:

Right, I would say I stopped writing kind of in 2020. I picked it back up at the end of 23 and then by May 24 I had like a really solid draft, but then I started going out to get published. Yeah.

Rhonda:

Okay, great. So tell me a little bit about your publishing journey. How did you make the decision? You're with Archway Publishing, right? So how did you make the decision to go with Archway? And what kind of factors like what were you thinking about when you were thinking about publishing?

Mel:

In full transparency, I wish I would have known a lot more than I know now as I was making these decisions. And that's why I think podcasts like yours are so valuable. But I had tried to go the traditional publishing way. I got a lot of feedback that the industry has changed. 

For my genre specifically, the feedback I received was  they want to know that you have a lot of followers, that you have this big audience already, that you already have a book, otherwise it's harder.

So I kind of received that feedback and thought, I'll go this hybrid route with Archway Publishing. And I just, man, I think it's like, it was my first time writing, to me it felt like this like I gave birth to something, you know, creatively and it was so precious to me.

And then I think kind of realizing that at the end of the day, publishing is an industry and people are there to make money. I wish I would have approached it more like that versus like, oh, here's my still beating heart that I'm giving to you to bring into the world, you know?

Rhonda:

I think that's so true. Industry has changed a lot since COVID and it's so much more competitive now in the traditional world. But I think there's also been an explosion for the writer that like is willing to go independent, but just can't bear the thought of like learning the software to lay out their own book because which of us wants to do that? I don't.

Mel:

Yeah.

Rhonda:

So I think the hybrid approach is is much more popular now than it ever was. Do you think you go hybrid again for the next book?

Mel:

um I would be open to it.  think now that I feel like, I have my sea legs, so to speak, and I understand it, I know what I would do differently in the hybrid process versus what I did in the beginning. But I do like, I mean, just the timelines are different from traditional, even if you get accepted and then the creativity, the creative control that you have over it, I just think it's a nice way to uh go.

Rhonda:

Yeah. I think the biggest thing I think for people who decide to go indie is creative control  and the fact that you can be published in six months instead of three years.

Mel:

Yeah, for sure.

Rhonda:

Yeah, that makes a big difference. But it really is hard to release your little book baby oh into um the industry. So that's that's really good advice. I think. Yeah. So are you working on something else now?

Mel:

Yeah, I'm working on a, this novel Now Is Not a Good Time for a Breakdown, is kind of focused purely on the main character, very character driven. And now I'm working on more of like a cast of characters plot driven novel uh that came to me  while I was in Indonesia.

Rhonda:

That was looking for you.

Mel:

Yeah. I was in Indonesia for like a few weeks and I just uh all of a sudden I could see this whole idea. I've been working on that one. Yeah.

Rhonda:

So great. Okay. And what's different about going from, you know, one protagonist, very character driven novel to something with multiple, with like a big cast of characters and something that's more plot focused?

Mel:

I think with the like main character, it's very easy to keep track of everything, know, like she's doing this, she's doing that, you know, know the different people around her. And this has been like, okay, how are they all coming together?

And also like really understanding everyone's motivations and like, why are they acting like this? So it just, it feels a little more complex to like really build a lot of richness, even when each character isn't getting as much time on the page. So it feels like a challenge, yeah.

Rhonda:

Yeah. So are you doing more kind of like plotting or outlining than you did for the other book?

Mel:

Yeah, I  mean, I, so I got the idea and I was like writing, I had, you know, a few ideas written down and then immediately I just started plotting it out because it seemed like way more complicated. Whereas before I felt like I could just kind of flow and assume like, I to be very strategic  about how I'm writing.

Rhonda:

Yeah. I think it's easier to kind of do that. What, know, what they call the discovery draft, like write a first draft with one main character or maybe two main characters than it is for like an ensemble cast where you have a lot of different people coming in and out. You can still do it, but it's exactly what you said. Like, oh my God, where is everybody now?

Mel:

Yeah.

Rhonda:

Oh my God. So good. So um for anyone listening, you know, this is your debut novel. You spent quite a lot of time on it, you decided to go the hybrid publishing route. For anyone listening who like is trying to finish their novel and doesn't yet know what they're going to do, do you have any advice for someone who's kind of at that stage yet where they haven't finished?

Mel:

I guess two things. One thing is I would figure out what happens next. Like I would spend time researching your options. What are you getting yourself into? Because especially like if you go to hybrid novel  or sorry, hybrid publishing way, or even if you try to go traditional, like my understanding is in the landscape we're in, like you really need to start following, like building your social media following or  whatever it is, you know, some sort of following.

Either way, you're going to want to do that. And I know like, I'm sure most authors are like, No, not  like, please don't make me go out there, but like figuring that out, like what's gonna feel comfortable for you, maybe like Substack, which is less like, here's my face, ah you know, whatever that's gonna be for you. 

Cause I think that kind of makes it less scary. Like for people like me who are afraid of what comes next, if you know what's coming next and you feel like you've prepared yourself, I think you're kind of moving past that.

And then I think if you're just afraid to finish it for any other reason, I would really just kind of be looking at like what, what happened, like what is going on in me that I feel like I don't want this to be the end, you know?

Rhonda:

Yeah, totally. It's so common to kind of like see the light at the end of the tunnel and be like, oh no, no, no, no, I don't, I don't want, I don't want this. So you're on TikTok.

Mel:

Yeah.

Rhonda:

As an author. How's that been for you?

Mel:

I, I find, so I, prefer TikTok as an author to Instagram, even though like, it was a little bit of a learning curve for me, because, you know, I started on Instagram, I was very familiar with that, but that's like my friends and family. But I find like TikTok is much more open to long form. So, you know, just talking about what's going on, like you don't have to be so polished on TikTok in a way I feel like Instagram likes. But it's been really-

Rhonda:

Like more authentic to you?

Mel:

Yeah, way more authentic. Like you don't have to worry as much about what you're saying. I mean, like not that I'm just throwing things out there, but it feels like you can kind of have a conversation or a monologue, I guess.

And I find it's way easier to build community because people are looking for like, I want to be connected to other authors here in a way I feel like you don't get on Instagram so much.

Rhonda:

Yeah. Yeah. That's so great. Thanks so much for being with me today. Mel, it’s so great to talk to you.

Mel:

Yeah, thank you for inviting me.

Outro:

Thanks so much for hanging out with me today and for listening all the way to the end. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of The Resilient Writers Radio Show. While you're here, I would really appreciate it if you'd consider leaving a rating and review of the show. You can do that in whatever app you're using to listen to the show right now, and it just takes a few minutes. 

Your ratings and reviews tell the podcast algorithm gods that yes, this is a great show, definitely recommend it to other writers. And that will help us reach new listeners who might need a boost in their writing lives today as well. So please take a moment and leave a review. I'd really appreciate it. And I promise to read every single one. Thank you so much.