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The Resilient Writers Radio Show: Interview with A. L. Sinclair – Full Episode Transcript

Intro:

Well, hey there, Writer. Welcome to The Resilient Writers Radio Show. I'm your host, Rhonda Douglas. And this is the podcast for writers who want to create and sustain a writing life they love. 

Because let's face it, the writing life has its ups and downs, and we want to not just write, but also to be able to enjoy the process so that we'll spend more time with our butt-in-chair getting those words on the page. 

This podcast is for writers who love books and everything that goes into the making of them. For writers who want to learn and grow in their craft and improve their writing skills. Writers who want to finish their books and get them out into the world so their ideal readers can enjoy them. Writers who want to spend more time in that flow state. 

Writers who want to connect with other writers to celebrate and be in community, in this crazy roller coaster ride, we call the writing life. We are resilient writers. We're writing for the rest of our lives and we're having a good time doing it. So welcome, Writer. I'm so glad you're here. Let's jump right into today's show.

Rhonda:

Well, hey there, Writer. Welcome back to another episode of The Resilient Writers Radio Show. I'm here today with A. L. Sinclair, ah and ah she is a recovering lawyer, author, and lifelong voracious reader. She's been writing stories since she can remember, and her first novel published in her school library when she was 11.

And today she writes dark fantasy, blending a love for medieval history, mythology, and all things fantastical. She's drawn to stories that explore power, identity, and the forces that shape us all through a feminist lens. She has a background in law, sustainability, and somatic healing.

She lives in Perth, Western Australia on Whadjuk Noongar country. I think I've said this right. And two very well-traveled cats who've crossed continents with her. And she's represented by Rose Conway at the Confluence Literary Agency. Welcome, Amanda.

Amanda:

Thank you for having me, Rhonda. It's so lovely to be with you.

Rhonda:

So, um, how is it that you got into writing, um, Gothic dark, dark fantasy, say dark Gothic fantasy. Yeah.

A. L. Sinclair:

I have always been drawn to more of the dark side of fantasy because I think it explores our psychology a little bit more. And it's such a beautiful way to analyze and assess the paradigms within which we live. And I find it really empowering to just be able to use a fantastical world.

So it's not as confronting because sometimes, you know, we're living with the day to day and we're seeing the news, but being able to go into a fantasy era and kind of explore that in more depth and understand the psychology behind why people do the things they do, what drives people. That's just something that I've always loved. so getting to write that has been incredibly um freeing.

Rhonda:

Yeah. I love that. Are your books, I mean, I'm guessing from so we have your debut novel is a historical fantasy, The Witch Queen's Gambit. And you say it's a sharp, sensual and subversive Anne Boleyn retelling. Love that. And so it's blending historical revisionism, myth, queer romance and witchcraft into a story about power, pleasure and feminine rage. Love, love, love. Must get. I need a copy from me. need a copy for my daughter. So how, why, why Anne Boleyn? Like why retell that story, which is probably like one of the more well-known stories in history, right?

A. L. Sinclair:

It is. And it's one that is very popular at the moment. We've got the Beheading Game and another one that is completely escaping my mind. But we've got a few stories about Anne Boleyn that are coming out and I think it's really a reflection of what we're seeing in the political landscape in terms of the rights of women slowly being eroded.

And what really drew me to Anne is that her story isn't that different from a story that we're seeing playing out today. She was a very savvy, politically astute woman who was driving reforms and change in an era where men had all the power.

The reason she was persecuted the way she was, mean, historical evidence shows today that none of the charges against her were in any way corroborated by fact. There was definitely a uh witch hunt for lack of a better term against her. And we see that happening today as well.

Like in Australia, we had a situation where our Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, a few years ago was uh literally our opposition leader was standing in front of placard which says ditch the witch and imagine that's happening in like 2017.

Rhonda:

Oh my god.

A. L. Sinclair:

He won the election. Like so we've seen the same narrative happen over and over again and though Anne wasn't actually charged with witchcraft officially, they did spread rumors about her being a witch and having a sixth finger and that was a sign of her witchiness and that she was seduced Henry.

And so there's this like constant rhetoric from the patriarchy that uses a woman's sexuality, her power, her understanding of the world, and then uses that to frame her as a villain. And what I thought in this moment was, if you wanted a villain, I will give you a villain that you will root for.

And so I took all of those rumors and all of the narrative and the mythology that they'd made about Anne and the story that, you know, the patriarchy tried to frame her as this villainous scheming witch.

And I made her into one that I think the audience and certainly from the feed back is actually really wanting to win. So it's almost like flipping the narrative and saying, if you want to see what a villain can do, let me show you that came from, from I am.

Rhonda:

Wow. And are you writing? So it's, dark fantasy and it's a little sexy.

A. L. Sinclair:

It is, yes. So there is an exploration of pleasure and they does look at issues of consent and you know, like where do we draw the line between doing what we need to do for um to survive and where do we draw the line between our morality?

So you get these ideas of exploring power dynamics in this novel and then you also see a more healthy version of you know, sensual love and acceptance and consent as well. there's no non-con or any of those kind of thematics, but Anne certainly pushes boundaries in certain areas that are really interesting to explore, especially as a female.

Rhonda:

Yeah, I love that. How much… let's talk a little bit about research. How much historical research did you have to do before you wrote the novel? And then how much in particular I'm really interested in the the um the research around witchcraft and the myths around witchiness in that time. Yeah.

A. L. Sinclair:

Well, I am a witch. I've been a witch for like 27 years. So um there wasn't that much research on that particular aspect because it's coming from real life experience. But in terms of the historical research, there was a lot that I needed to do.

I've always been a huge fan of medieval history, specifically, I'm a Plantagenet fan. So 14th century history is my like, baby. This like kind of stretched me a little bit more into the Tudor history, but I do have a little bit of experience in that area.

So it wasn't going completely outside of the realm of my personal interests and so I already had a lot of background knowledge which really helped. It also helped that this is a historical fantasy so I could stretch reality a bit to fit the context of what I was playing with.

So, well, it's a lot of the figures in there are historically accurate what they do and how they're presented is very much like me expanding my world. For example, Anne was a very religious, very devoutly religious woman. um Whereas in mine, she's a lot more subversive around religion.

Rhonda:

Yeah. I love that. So, um that’s fascinating though. Did you find yourself going down like these research rabbit holes where you'd spend like two hours researching and then be like, wait, what was I doing?

A. L. Sinclair:

Yes. It's such a era of history. Like I didn't realize that Henry was the first monarch in England to criminalized homosexuality through the Buggery Act 1533.

Rhonda:

Really? I didn't know that.

A. L. Sinclair:

Yeah. It blew my mind because until then, anything around sexuality whilst... Anything around sexuality was very much in the realm of the church and what the church felt was right. And so any sex before marriage was considered completely taboo, which is so ironic because I have also studied a lot of elastical kind of laws and um history of like the Roman Catholic Church and you know.

Even up to the 1500s during this time Cardinals were had mistresses and it wasn't as you know as uh Clean cut as they would like to make it out to be. And so the hypocrisy of this was something that I that I found really interesting. But yeah, like it was so easy to go down rabbit holes and all of the aspects because history is so rich and there's so much detail about all of these.

Rhonda:

Yeah. Love it. Love. So um let's talk a little bit about just the genre of historical fantasy. So you've got real people and you know, in the case of Henry VIII, real events, like real stuff that went down, you know, real um significant shifts.

How do you handle, but then you have fantasy. So basically you can do whatever you want. So is there a line for you? Are you thinking, oh, I can do this, but I can't do that. Like, how do you handle the blending, the speculative and the fantastical with the historical, which you're, you know, you're obviously interested in?

A. L. Sinclair:

That's a really good question. I try to keep it as accurate to the era in terms of, you know, travel and setting and...what would be allowed and what wouldn't be allowed, whilst also pushing the boundaries because in my, in this fantasy world, witches aren't something that are new.

They were very much a part of the culture and there was a very clear move to eradicate witches, and so there was witches going into hiding and they also have a longer lifespan. So there was a huge amount of fantasy elements woven into it.

As far as the people, I tried to keep it accurate in terms of their titles, some of the things that they did, some of the conversations, because obviously a lot of these things are documented. So you do have some historical actual artifacts that you can go and research and read up on. And I tried to use some of that in the framing of it, but because it's a historical fantasy, I am not positioning this as a historically accurate.

Like if you want to read a historical novel, you can go and find them. This is not a historical novel it's got history because it's obviously focusing on Henry VIII and that particular era it focused on the four months between um December and uh May and it yeah so it doesn't necessarily stick to all of the things that were happening.

So for example, Anne was pregnant in December. She was about three and half months pregnant and she unfortunately miscarried in January. And that set off the course of her demise, unfortunately, because Henry had been waiting three years for a son, he couldn't get the son he wanted at the time he wanted it. And so he moved to Jane Seymour.

And so there was that aspect that I decided to take out because I didn't think it would be relevant to the particular trajectory of the story that I was going to. But yeah, there's choices you make as a writer that you're able to work through.

Rhonda:

Okay. And how did you make the decision about what level of spice you wanted in the book? You've got a queer romance, so presumably there's something hot and steamy in here.

A. L. Sinclair:

There. Hot and steamy.

Rhonda:

Oh good.

A. L. Sinclair:

So I come from a somatic healing background, so I'm very much about empowering women. I was a woman in women's empowerment, Code Children was very much about connecting in with your sexuality and your sensuality.

A woman's power is in her pleasure because we've been so conditioned to ignore our body feelings and part of our re-empowerment process is really connecting in with that. And that's a huge psychological driver behind how I write and why I write and why consent is such an important part of the journey of healing through the writing process.

Like you really start understanding these dynamics of consent and even through dynamics like um dominance and submissiveness, you can understand how power works in the sexual context and the psychology behind that.

In terms of the spice level in this, it really isn't me. I genuinely feel like I am a clear channel for the characters that are coming through and I write as accurately as I can the experiences that they are having.

And so I am not a fan of putting spice for the sake of spice. If it's not driving the plot forward, if it's not creating a character arc, if it's not bringing like some sort of emotional healing or empowerment or connection that is, you know, something that they need to work on. There's no point having it. Like every everything in there is driving towards the end result of the novel.

The spy scenes um really were what the characters what I felt the characters were trying to convey in terms of their connection and their romance. So for Zephyr and for George, so George, I wrote him as bisexual. He came to me as bisexual. I never decided he was going to be bisexual. When his character came through, it was very clear that he was bisexual. And so that's how I wrote him.

And his relationship with Zephyr is such a core anchor and driver of the narrative and where the story goes. And I think it's the one point of differentiation of The Witch Queen's Gambit. It's an Anvril in retelling, yes, but George Boleyn has a very strong and consistent arc. He really drives the narrative till the very end.

I think that's really important because George as a historical figure was actually such an incredible um personality. He was a poet. He was compared to Chaucer. You know, he had this really rich, vibrant life that was erased in a lot of ways because of the charges put against him, but also because he just happened to have a older sister who was this vibrant, shining, beautiful light, which is brilliant for Anne, but he was always in her shadow.

And I felt like this time he kind of comes in and he's such a support for her. He's such a backer. It just goes to show how the masculine can really support the feminine in a lot of ways. And I think that was such a beautiful dynamic that I got to explore as well.

Rhonda:

I really love that. think that, um you know, I love a good spicy scene, but um what you say about, you know, let it be part of the story, let it be central to the characters and who they are and how the story is moving forward. Yeah, love that.

So um can I ask you a little bit about your own process? Where does a story start for you? Like, do you just have like, witchy Anne Boleyn, like Anne Boleyn, like, boom, there she is. Or was it George? Like, does it start with a character? Does it start with a place? Does it start with what if I mashed up this with this? Like, where do things start for you?

A. L. Sinclair:

It's very much the character. George was the first character that came to me. And so this particular book, was actually, um I wrote a book before this called A Song of Stars. And that's the book that was on query. So I was querying a different book.

But the whole historical background of that book that I was querying started with this particular moment in time. So I knew the historical background was this particular moment in time where Anne overthrew Henry and that changed the course of the world that existed and what we were living in. And so the book that I was querying at the time was that. And I started writing this because I just needed to get my head out of the query trenches. It's brutal.

Rhonda:

Yeah. It is brutal. That's true. Yes.

A. L. Sinclair:

And so I wrote this book because it was it was this exploration of uh how did that whole historical incident happen? The main character of that book is Zephyr of A Song of Stars and so I knew that he played a vital role in Anne becoming powerful and the Boleyns becoming a dynasty in the world.

And so when I started tuning into that, George was the first character who came up to me and it was his story. And so I just started like writing it and it flowed so clearly. His voice was so clear. His agony and his like wretchedness about the decision he had to make in this particular moment to drive the story forward was so powerful and so strong, like I could feel it in my body and so I just started writing it.

So it's always the characters that come in come through first um and then it's really for me it's about like connecting in with what do they want? What is their motivation in the scene? What are they trying to get out of this? What is driving them? And then what changes? And how does that change through the course of their interactions with people?

I think human relationships are so important and in a world where we're moving towards more isolationism, a little bit more, you know lack of connection or social isolation or even in a world where there's more and more AI and people are finding fortunate connections through because they can't connect with humans or connecting with computers like this, there's this thing, there's this beauty about relationships that I feel like we're at risk of losing. And so for me, writing is really about connecting in with those relationships.

Rhonda:

How do you get the writing done? So I'm assuming like everybody else you have a busy life, right? We've got to make a living, groceries in the fridge, toilet paper in the bathroom. How do you get the writing done?

A. L. Sinclair:

Yeah, I set aside time. So I do have a busy life. I have a full-time job, I have family commitments, but I also know that this is something that I love. Even if I never get any of my books sold, need to like, need to this. Writing is who I am. And so I set aside time. Every morning I have about two and a half hours before I need to start my day where I can write.

Rhonda:

So do you get up early?

A. L. Sinclair::

I get up really early. I'm up at four.

Rhonda:

Okay. Oh, wow. That's dedication.

A. L. Sinclair:

When I'm in the middle of drafting, so I'm currently drafting a new novel that I'm hoping to get out on submission towards the end of the year with my agent. And so I, I'm just really, and plus it's a really fun novel to write. And so I'm really inspired to get up and actually write it. But I also spend a lot of time on the weekends doing it.

So it does take priority over household chores. does take priority over me socializing. So I do sometimes decline an event if I just know that I need to get a certain amount of stuff done.

It is what I prioritize and it's something that I don't feel like it's a sacrifice necessarily all the time, although it can be really hard to say no to things that you really want to go and do. But this is something that I need to do.

Rhonda:

Yeah. So tell me a little bit about your publishing journey. You mentioned querying the previous book, which now sounds like a bit of a prequel, honestly. Tell me about your publishing journey, because querying is hard. How do you stay in it and be like, you know, I just got 50 rejections, let me go for 51. How do you do that?

A. L. Sinclair::

There was over 200 rejections on that book.

Rhonda:

Wow.

A. L. Sinclair:

So I think one thing you need to realize is it's not personal for one it is a very subjective field. I, uh, I had queried The Witch Queen's Gambit. I had my offer, but there was still pending. Like initial query letters out, so I hadn't gotten requests. And even after I got my offer and signed my agent, I've been getting like rejections coming through every once in while.

So you can tell like I've got an agent, I'm signed, I've got another one on the way. And you still like gonna have people that are like, oh, it's not really for me. And that's not a personal thing, right? Like there's some excellent books out there that just aren't for me learning how not to take it personally and really developing the resilience and deal with rejection.

Yeah, I think because I have a background in somatic healing and somatic therapy, I have learned to really process those emotions at that kind of somatic level to, to release it from my system. So it's not really impacting me at that level.

Rhonda:

So what do do? You get a rejection? Do you go for a walk? Do you meditate? Do you how do you manage that? Because it hurts, right? It kind of stings a little bit.

A. L. Sinclair:

Everytime. I think really sitting with the rejection and allowing yourself to feel the emotion, that's something not nobody's really comfortable with. They're not comfortable with sitting with how rejection feels in your system. It hurts, right? Like, but can you just breathe with it? Can you welcome the part of you, the inner child that is experiencing probably something from the past in that moment of this present rejection?

Because that's usually what's happening is we're completing the current no with things that have told us we're not good enough, we're never gonna do the thing, our dream is not valid, like there's so many stories that we have. And I think it hurts more because we're conflating the one no with all of these past no's that we've experienced. And so…

Rhonda:

Oh that's so true. Yes, absolutely. Yes.

A. L. Sinclair:

Like, can you see that? And so I think that's been really helpful. Also just making time for that part of yourself that feels really wounded in that moment because it doesn't stop hurting. I recently received a rejection on a submission.

So my current book is out on submission with editors. And it kind of stings a little bit. Like I'm not the one who received it, my agent is. So thank goodness for her. Like vicariously, I was like, oh, okay, why?

Rhonda:

Yeah.

A. L. Sinclair:

Because you do pour your heart and soul into it, right?

Rhonda:

Right. Yeah.

A. L. Sinclair:

Writers just spend so much time creating and pouring everything that they are into the books. And when it's not received as well as you hope, it does feel a little personal, even though it's not like nobody's meaning it to be mean. I think that's important.

If you really, really want to be a traditionally published author, I mean, there's so many options these days to publish. Chad publishing isn't necessarily the only way. There are other ways. But if your heart is set on Chad, I would say...learn from every rejection.

Like if you get a request for a full and somebody gives you feedback, sit with it. Don't just automatically kind of go, don't automatically have a defensive reaction to that. assess it and analyze it and looking at, look at it pragmatically.

At the end of the day, whether we like it or not, publishing is a business. as a creator, when you're creating, yes, you're an artist, but then you kind of have to step out of the artist into the business entrepreneur or entrepreneur mindset. This is a product that I am selling. How do I market this? And if somebody's telling you.

Rhonda:

Yeah. So when you were querying and you got feedback, did you change the book?

A. L. Sinclair:

Yeah, I did two developmental edits on that book. And then oh I put it aside for a few months because I was writing The Witch Queen's Gambit. And when I went back to it, I did a full read and then I deleted 119,000 words.

Rhonda:

Wow.

A. L. Sinclair:

So I was like, you know what, now that I've had three months away from this book and I've come back to it with fresh eyes, having just written a novel that's, you know, landed me an agent, let me go back into this and see what I need to do because it'll be like part of the next phase of the series if it ever becomes a series and if I ever get sold and people want to buy it. What would that look like?

And I was like, actually... This isn't, well, for one, because the Anne Boleyn story is coming out first. Yeah. How I position this has to change anyways. And there were also like parts that just didn't, didn't work in retrospect. And I was like, right. The, the amazing..

Rhonda:

You can see it now.

A. L. Sinclair:

Yeah. I can see it now. And the thing is, I think as authors, and this was me, you want to land an agentso bad that you were just like gung-ho pushing through instead of taking the time. And it feels like you're losing time because agents close their query processes so often nowadays. Like they'll open up a short window and you just want to get into that.

Rhonda:

Yeah, it's like 48 hours and that's it.

A. L. Sinclair:

Yeah. Because they're getting inundated with AI slump half the time.

Rhonda:

Yeah.

A. L. Sinclair:

So it's very competitive to try and get through the noise.

Rhonda:

Yeah, it's, it's a yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, but you made it. You did it. So congratulations. That's so great.

A. L. Sinclair:

Thank you.

Rhonda:

So thanks so much for talking to me today, Amanda. It was really, really fun talking to you. I appreciate it.

A. L. Sinclair:

Thank you. 

Outro:

Thanks so much for hanging out with me today and for listening all the way to the end. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of The Resilient Writers Radio Show. While you're here, I would really appreciate it if you'd consider leaving a rating and review of the show. You can do that in whatever app you're using to listen to the show right now, and it just takes a few minutes. 

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