Links Mentioned in This Episode:

Small Shoes, Impossible to Fill (Memoir)

The Resilient Writers Radio Show: Interview with Maureen Howley – Full Episode Transcript

Intro:

Well, hey there, Writer. Welcome to The Resilient Writers Radio Show. I'm your host, Rhonda Douglas. And this is the podcast for writers who want to create and sustain a writing life they love. 

Because let's face it, the writing life has its ups and downs, and we want to not just write, but also to be able to enjoy the process so that we'll spend more time with our butt-in-chair getting those words on the page. 

This podcast is for writers who love books and everything that goes into the making of them. For writers who want to learn and grow in their craft and improve their writing skills. Writers who want to finish their books and get them out into the world so their ideal readers can enjoy them. Writers who want to spend more time in that flow state. 

Writers who want to connect with other writers to celebrate and be in community, in this crazy roller coaster ride, we call the writing life. We are resilient writers. We're writing for the rest of our lives and we're having a good time doing it. So welcome, Writer. I'm so glad you're here. Let's jump right into today's show.

Rhonda:

Well, hey there, Writer. Welcome back to another episode of The Resilient Writers Radio Show. Today I'm here with Maureen Howley. Maureen is a native of Scotland, but she currently lives in County Sligo in Ireland.

And she spent many years in nursing and midwifery before retiring as an assistant director of public health nursing. And she has an MA in English literature from Glasgow University.

Her essays and poetry have been featured in local anthologies, and she's known among friends and family for composing lighthearted verses to celebrate weddings, birthdays, and retirements.

And when she's not writing, she loves to sing and dance, and she's involved in the musical theater um experience in Sligo for many years. Small Shoes, Impossible to Fill, which is this memoir, is her first book, and she's already working on another one. So welcome, Maureen.

Maureen:

Thank you so much, Rhonda. I mean, little did I think when I was doing the first book finish that I would not only finish the book, but I would be here talking to you on your radio program.

Rhonda:

Oh, good. I'm so glad. um Maureen, when did you decide to write a memoir and why did you decide to write a memoir?

Maureen:

I didn't. I didn't decide to write a memoir at all, no. I decided to write down my mom's stories because she was terminally ill and I traveled over to look after her or be with her. It was during COVID, so I retired from my job and I thought, right, as a way of distraction, I will document her stories because my mom was a very active woman and the idea that she couldn't go out, which we couldn't do at that stage anyway um was really difficult for her. So we decided together we would write down the stories.

The memoir part came later because as I was writing the stories, what I realized very quickly was that mum was affected by telling them, I was affected by listening to them. And so it kind of became clear that the process of storytelling was like our story.

So that was how it started because then as she was telling me the story, you mentioned I was in musical theater. So as she was telling me the stories, I could see the people. I could see her grandparents, her parents, herself even as a young woman.

And so I decided really just to, I suppose, put them on a stage and let them tell their own stories. And so that's what I did straight away. So that's what I call the fictionalized story part of the book.

But the memoir was like, I didn't want to say, if I wanted to write a memoir about my mom's final months, I wouldn't have done that. So I wanted to write about why I was telling the story this way, the process and along the way of doing that, of course, I was telling the story of our final months together, the challenges, physical, emotional, et cetera. So that's how the memoir came about. But I struggled with the idea of calling it a memoir for a very long time.

Rhonda:

Right. It's sort of a blend, isn't it? It's sort of it's got a little bit of fictionalized biography, your mother's story, and then your story of being with your mother during COVID and in her lab. So was your mother always a storyteller, even when you were young?

Maureen:

Was she a storyteller? That's a good question. When you could sit her down to tell a story, she could tell a story. But she wasn't a natural storyteller. My mom was an active woman. So she was out and about all the time. mean, up until COVID, she had a job in the local hospital in the cafeteria. She was a street pastor. She wasn't a woman to sit down and reflect.

So this whole sitting together, telling stories was quite a new thing for her. Yes. No, she wasn't a natural. She was a natural raconteur, I suppose, but not in that formal way of telling stories.

Rhonda:

Okay. So you decided together to write the stories?

Maureen:

Yes.

Rhonda:

Was it a joint project, the two of you.

Maureen:

Yes.

Rhonda:

Yeah. And when she was telling you the stories from her life, were there any in particular that really stood out for you that where you thought, wow, that's amazing?

Maureen:

Gosh, I think the one that stood out for me was during her army years, I asked her several times, why did you come home? And there was this whole story of a cook and what has happened to her in the army and how big an impact that had had on her decision to come home. I thought that was a very pivotal story.

All of the stories, I knew bits of her stories, but having her explain them properly and being able to ask her questions, it was just the whole process really.

Rhonda:

So what was your process like as you were, I mean, I know you were in First Book Finish, so I was sort of there along with you as you were doing it, but for folks who are listening, what was your process in writing the memoir? Like just describe how it...how it all came together.

Maureen:

Well, the writing of the stories, just did as after mum would tell me the story and I recorded them on my phone, I wrote them as fictionalised scenes. I wrote in scenes. And then the memoir kind of took care of itself because you were, I've always been a journal writer. So I was writing about how things were happening.

Now, the third strand of the book, because it's got three strands, there's the memoir, there's the fictionalised stories, as I call them. And then there's the reflections. And the reflections kind of came later because I wanted to show rather than tell how my mum was affected by the telling of her own stories.

As I said, she wasn't a reflector. So she started at that point in time during our discussions, she would make comments. The context of the stories was almost as important as the stories themselves reflections, although I knew they were going to be there, it was only afterwards.

They were kind of like the bridge between the memoir and the fictionalized stories was her reflections, but they are actually fiction because that's me being in the character of my mum. Right. Based on our conversations during that year, but also based on knowing her for 65 years. And that took a bit of distance.

Rhonda:

Yeah.

Maureen:

That was the strand of the book that was written later. And that was how it went. But the difficult part, Rhonda, the really difficult part was knowing at the end of the day, I had three strands of a book, no idea what to do with them really, except that I knew I wanted them to be intertwined together and way too many words, which as you know, for a first book is like, I heard you talking to a writer, The Sweet Spot is 80, 80,000 words. Absolutely. think I started at 150 or something before I started to hone it down. It was like three different books.

Rhonda:

It's still a thick book. mean, it's what? know, 300 and that's about 363 pages.

Maureen:

That's the edited version. But the difficulty was what I wanted was to tell a story that felt like one story. So, but using three strands and making them all weave together without it sounding or reading as if it was manufactured.

Rhonda:

One next piece. Yeah.

Maureen:

And that's what took the work really because they had to work together, know, they had to feel like they were integrated. Although it's kind of a memoir that's different. I wanted to kind of be true to the craft of writing. So like I'm one of these people, I've got the how to write a book, how not to write a book, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

So I wanted to look at the three act structure. I wanted each of the characters, my character in the memoir, my mom's in the fictionalized stories, and my mom in the reflections all to have a character arc to show change, to show transformation.

And I also, like my mom's fictional stories kind of were a hero's journey anyway. So knowing a bit about the craft of writing helped because I knew how to, or I tried anyway to weave them together in a way that was true to that craft, if you like, not just thrown all together. And that was what my aim was, but that was what took the time really.

Rhonda:

So there was quite a bit of revision and editing.

Maureen:

Yes, there was.

Rhonda:

And while you were writing the original stories, you were also with your mom, caring for your mom. How did you do that? Did you sort of in the nighttime or early in the morning? When did you do your initial writing?

Maureen:

We did our chats during our coffee. We were always Latte people. even before we for years, our thing was let's go for Latte. And my sister would go mad because she's like, for God's sakes, how can you make coffee last as long as you two. So that was our thing together.

So the stories came naturally during those chats. And then my mum, as time went on, she would, she got more tired as her cancer progressed. And I would write when I could. um And sometimes it was the morning, sometimes it was later.

And I mean, I'm used to here in the Glencar, it's lovely writing desk and I've got my lovely writing room. And in mum's house, I had like a suitcase and a thing that I hobbled together to try and write because that was the only place I had. So I when I couldn't.

Rhonda:

So um tell me about your publishing journey. When did you decide how you were going to publish it and how did you go the route that you did?

Maureen:

I was introduced to a lady called Michele Smith uh from a small publishing company called Jasami. And she met me and I suppose it was assisted self publishing is what I would call it. And she assigned an editor and a cover designer.

Rhonda:

Oh, great. They did a really nice job. mean, I really love the cover.

Maureen:

The cover. She was so wonderful.

Rhonda:

Was it your mom or it's just a representation.

Maureen:

No, it’s just a representation. And the girl who did the cover was fabulous because I wasn't easy to please. And she kept showing me this, no, no, no. And then when I saw that one, I knew it because I didn't want to say this is the title and then describe it as a memoir of or whatever. I just wanted to see, to stand on its own. And as soon as I saw that, I loved the color and I just loved the thing. that was it.

Rhonda:

Yeah.

Maureen:

The editing was a bit more difficult because um I had to do a lot of that myself and then get someone else to look at it. And even when after it had been proofread, I was still tweaking it.

Rhonda:

Which you're not supposed to do, of course.

Maureen:

I know that, I know. I would read something and think, not line editing it type thing, just it was more to do with the flow. I was really particular about the flow. So yeah.

So now, yeah, it's assisted self-publishing. I mean, can you imagine if I'd gone to what they call the one of the Big Five, say, well, I've got this book. It's not really a memoir. It's a kind of memoir.

And I didn't even know what the book was about. As I was writing, I was just writing it. And now I have a better idea of, I suppose, what it's about. You know, it's funny because I nearly gave up several times, Rhonda. I really did. Oh, I did. And I remembered you saying like, you've got to finish this first draft.

But what I also liked, and I did, I finished it eventually. But then what I liked was that you sort of said, at the end of your first draft, that's part of the process. So I knew that the next part was just as important. And so I kept going.

My dad was a man who, he was very well read. And so if you said, dad, what was that book about that film, he'd always say it was about this boy and this girl and this other boy and this other girl. It was very frustrating because you're just, oh for God's sake, dad.

But when I was writing it and what stopped me from giving up, I was like, do you know what? At the end of the day, what I think he was trying to tell me was...Stories are really mostly about the same things that affect us all.

And what I learned listening to the stories about my relatives in the past was different context, but what was worrying them was much the same as what was worrying me now or affecting me. So about families, about relationships, about love, about loss, because I was losing my mum and she lost her father as well. So all that.

I think about tough times. So it might not be the Depression or the Second World War, but we had COVID. And if you didn't have COVID, there's something else.

Rhonda:

So it's about tough times.

Maureen:

Yeah, getting through tough times. I think as well maybe about celebrating the small things. I I wasn't writing a memoir. I thought a memoir of my mom's last year would be like about her demise, if you like. And it wasn't, it was about the joy and the laughter and the family and all the things that go with it. So at the end of the day, yeah, I think story is story. That's what I've learned when it comes down to it.

Rhonda:

Yeah. Yeah. So I was watching you on um Facebook and you had you had quite a few launch parties. Tell me your launch parties. I love it. I think everyone should have a launch party. Several launch parties. Yeah, at least one.

Maureen:

They have developed as I've gone along. The first one was in Scotland because I was terrified that my mum's keep fit class, she was the keep fit class and these were all ladies in their late 80s and 90s.

And to be honest, I didn't want to go through a whole winter and I could hear my mum on my shoulder, Maureen, get on with this, finish this book, get on with this. So that was the first one was in Scotland, in Perth, for them really, I suppose. So my family were mostly there. Then the next one was in Sligo. And no, what's it? No, the next one actually was in Monaco.

Rhonda:

Right, where your sister lives.

Maureen:

With my sister, yes. So I sing in her choir every year, so I knew a lot of people there. So that we did it there at Christmas. And that was lovely. We introduced music at that point in time because my sister's a fantastic singer. So we chose music that was favorites of my mom or relevant to the story. And we threaded them through the readings.

Rhonda:

Oh, I love that. What a great idea.

Maureen:

So then by the time we got to Sligo, I did slides uh of photographs just to have as background, not distraction, to add to the stories because my mother was a hoarder. So I have like millions of bits of memorabilia and photographs, et cetera. So we put them in and Colette sang. So it was developing that way.

So the guy who the writer who introduced the launch said to me, well, people will be coming in and out and signing books. And I said, no, no, no, it won't work that way because we have a format. And he said, oh, you mean it's it's more of a performance. And I said, well, yeah, it's kind of an event as opposed to a book signing.

And then the last one was in Montauroux. And that was that that's in the south of France. So Colette was ill, so she couldn't sing but we still have the slides and the chat and yeah, I think it helps the more you talk about the book yourself, the more you kind of understand it yourself, I suppose.

Rhonda:

So because when you self publish, I mean, you, sort of instantly become your own marketing department, don't you? Which is a bit daunting.

Maureen:

It’s very daunting.

Rhonda:

I love the launch event route to promote it. That's great.

Maureen:

Yeah, it's still hard to promote it. It definitely is. It's and you want I want to get on with the next book and learning social media and that kind of thing is quite hard. Yeah.

Rhonda:

So what's the book you're working on now? What's the second book?

Maureen:

Second book is called um A Big Boot and a Gentle Step. having having worked with the three strands, I want to see if I can do it again. And so this book is about my dad.

Rhonda:

OK.

Maureen:

Who has a very interesting backstory. I like the idea of oh dotting in bits about history. Right. Little context of history. quite like that. So that's the one I next want to do. And then I want to write a book set in Guatemala for Liv Longleaf.

Rhonda:

Oh, wow. Okay. Fiction or memoir?

Maureen:

That will probably be fiction based on facts. My son lives in Guatemala. Although I hated the idea of writing memoir initially, for some reason I was like, no, I'm not writing memoir. I quite like the idea of putting your own perspective into fiction. That's just a learning for me. I'm not sure that it's, we'll see. We'll see.

Rhonda:

Absolutely. Good. Well, thanks for being with me today, Maureen, and thanks for being with me in the First Book Finish program. I'm so glad that you did finish.

Maureen:

Well, thank you, because I love the fact that you have the right blend of facts and motivation and community, and it all worked for me. I'm sure it for everyone else.

Rhonda:

That's great. Good. OK, well, it was lovely to talk to you. Thank you so much.

Maureen:

And same to you. Thank you so much, Rhonda.

Outro:

Thanks so much for hanging out with me today and for listening all the way to the end. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of The Resilient Writers Radio Show. While you're here, I would really appreciate it if you'd consider leaving a rating and review of the show. You can do that in whatever app you're using to listen to the show right now, and it just takes a few minutes. 

Your ratings and reviews tell the podcast algorithm gods that yes, this is a great show, definitely recommend it to other writers. And that will help us reach new listeners who might need a boost in their writing lives today as well. So please take a moment and leave a review. I'd really appreciate it. And I promise to read every single one. Thank you so much.