Links Mentioned in This Episode:

Bookworks

Nicole Meier’s website

Resilient Writers Radio Show: Interview with Nicole Meier – Full Episode Transcript

Intro:

Well, hey there, Writer. Welcome to The Resilient Writers Radio Show. I'm your host, Rhonda Douglas. And this is the podcast for writers who want to create and sustain a writing life they love. 

Because let's face it, the writing life has its ups and downs, and we want to not just write, but also to be able to enjoy the process so that we'll spend more time with our butt-in-chair getting those words on the page. 

This podcast is for writers who love books and everything that goes into the making of them. For writers who want to learn and grow in their craft and improve their writing skills. Writers who want to finish their books and get them out into the world so their ideal readers can enjoy them. Writers who want to spend more time in that flow state. 

Writers who want to connect with other writers to celebrate and be in community, in this crazy roller coaster ride, we call the writing life. We are resilient writers. We're writing for the rest of our lives and we're having a good time doing it. So welcome, Writer. I'm so glad you're here. Let's jump right into today's show.

Rhonda:

Well, hey there, Writer. Welcome back to another episode of the Resilient Writers Radio Show. Today I'm here with Nicole Meier and I'm so excited for this conversation. We're gonna talk about building your author platform. So Nicole's book, The House of Bradbury, was chosen as the Best Book of 2016 by Refinery29, and The Girl Made of Clay was named a Top Book according to Bookbub readers, and The Second Chance Supper Club was named the Best New Book 2019 by Popsugar and her latest book, City of Books is out now.

She is also a book coach and someone who supports writers to build an author platform, which we know is so important. Whether you're gonna go traditional publishing or whether you're going to indie publish and then become your own marketing department, it's really important. So welcome, Nicole. I'm so glad you're here. 

Nicole:

Thanks Rhonda, I'm happy to be here. 

Rhonda:

What do you think is, let's kind of take it step by step. Like what are the, what's the first thing you need to be thinking about even before you really get started with building your author platform? 

Nicole:

Yeah, I'm so happy you phrased it that way. And just as with our writing, you know, writing our novel, writing our book, we want to think about our why and our motivation and why are we getting into this before we jump into tactics. So I would say that strategy, should come before tactics. And it's the same thing with thinking about your author platform. So many authors, myself included in the early days, just jumped straight into tactics.

Like I've got to be everywhere all at once and reach readers and look good to a publisher and look good to an agent. But what I really recommend is thinking about why you want or need a platform in the first place before jumping into tactics, before jumping into where you should be or what you should be saying or sharing. Why are you doing it?

So it could be to connect with readers. It could be to showcase expertise. It could be preparing to pitch an agent and look attractive. So I really want people to think about that. And then I'd love for them to follow that up with, think about your genre and audience. Where are the people you're reaching living online? Not everyone's on TikTok, not everyone's on Instagram. And that's, I think a mistake all of us make is we think we should be doing what everyone else is doing, but we think about our readers.

Rhonda:

Yeah, totally. So, um, so that's like really just getting clear on like, who are you? What do you want your platform to do for you? And where do you think your readers are? Um, so like, I think, you know, if you're writing nonfiction, maybe your readers aren't linked in, right? 

Nicole:

Right. 

Rhonda:

And who knows what will be left of book talk. I mean, we're, we're recording this and you know, on January 16th, so were 2 days away from the possible banning of TikTok and what are you thinking about like where do you think people ought to go if they built up something on TikTok. I have one student who started doing little Reels basically. So where would you go? If you started building something on TikTok and that thing gets banned.

Nicole:

Yeah. Wow, what a relevant question, right? I know people are going all kinds of places right now but I would again get back to your core of yourself as an author and say, where are my readers already getting their information and their entertainment? They're not just getting it on TikTok. You know, TikTok is for a certain reader or a certain writer. There's a great community of both on TikTok, but it also skews younger. It's also more fast paced content. It's certain kinds of content that does very well. For example, young adult content does great there. 

So think about your reader, do a little investigatory work and think, where are they getting their entertainment? Where are they getting their information? Do I wanna connect in a way, maybe I'm a romance writer and I wanna talk about all things love and empowerment. Where else can I do that? Maybe it's on threads, maybe I start a sub stack. I have to think about where those readers and writers are already living and then go and see if that is a match for me and what I wanna talk about. Does that make sense? 

Rhonda:

Yeah, it totally does. It totally does. How much does this overlap with the places you're comfortable? Like, many of us are on Facebook or we're on Instagram with our friends and family, but those are not necessarily, like for sure my friends and family are not necessarily all gonna wanna read either my poetry or my historical mystery. So should I be focusing on what I already know? Or trying to learn something new? 

Nicole:

Yeah, great question. And so it's a two-pronged answer. So let's talk about Instagram specifically. Back in the day, Instagram served as sort of a, I would say scrapbook for us, right? We would share our travel and our friends and our family, our cooking, whatever was kind of what we were passionate about. We would share images and stories about that.

Well, fast forward today, especially today's author. I always say authors are expected to be the CEO of their own brands. And it's like running a small business or opening a small business when you launch a book or launch an author career. So you need to think of your Instagram as kind of a extension of your website or extension of your old school business card if you will. It's more about what, you know, your story is, what your book is, what your messaging is as opposed to that old school thought of, oh, it's a scrapbook where I'm just sharing cute pictures of my kids. Yes, friends and family who love following your journey will keep following you. But if you want to separate that, you might want to consider an author page that's public and then a friends and family page or account that's private. 

Rhonda:

Yeah, that's true. You can always create a new account. You know, this is your name and have your friends and family there. What about, like if I already have accounts either on threads or Instagram or Facebook that are in my name, but then I want author accounts, do I have to set up new accounts on all these different socials? Or should I just start shifting the content that I'm posting? 

Nicole:

Yeah, again, it goes back to that why of why you wanna be out there having a public facing platform and it's really to build up that readership. So Ask yourself if you have the time and energy and bandwidth to hold space for two different kinds of accounts, wherever that is. And then if you don't, it's very easy to go. 

Let's say I had sort of a personal Instagram page, but I kind of maybe showed a little bit about my writing, you know, once a year, whatever I did. You can put a lovely post up and say, hey, friends and followers, I'm so excited about this entering this next phase of my writing journey. I wanna bring you along. If you're interested, great, please stick around. If not, I totally get it, but I'm gonna be sharing more and more about my romance novel that I'm writing, and I can't wait to tell you about it. 

Rhonda:

Yeah, I love that. So you're sort of giving your followers the idea that the content here is gonna be shifting. Yeah. Yeah. So it's funny, I had, there was a, I'm friends with a publisher and she was saying, they're a small publisher in Canada. And she was saying, you know, where do you guys get your books? And I was like, Instagram, like I pretty much all of my book recs from Instagram. 

I read, I follow so many authors and I read so much stuff off of Instagram. Whereas Facebook, you only reach me on Facebook with a book. Probably if somehow I hear about your author page and follow you, right, Louise Peck, the author, but um. The other thing I see on Facebook though is Facebook ads from indie authors. Right. I don't really see a lot of non-ad material on Facebook for authors. 

Nicole:

Right. Yeah. I totally agree with that. And that, you know, ads are so much further down the road. It's, you want to start, especially if you're a debut author, you want to start cultivating that readership that's right for you. You know, if I'm writing women's fiction, I'm not necessarily trying to gather readers who love sci-fi or speculative fiction, right? So I want to, I want to sharpen that bio. 

I want to tell people, not only am I writing a book, I want to say what that book is about or what the message is about. And that automatically sort of calls the audience to the right people for you. And then I want to start sharing messaging around my themes of my books or you know, what I'm hoping readers will take away from my books. And that again brings in the audience that's right for you as opposed to, I wanna bring all readers in. I actually wanna bring the ideal reader in instead. 

Rhonda:

Yeah, I think that's so important. And I do, yeah, there's lots of stuff that comes my way where I'm like, why am I seeing that? That makes me, you know? 

So let's talk about how do you rank the effectiveness of different types of content. So for example, having my own email newsletter versus social media, and then the different types of content on social media. If I only have the ability to do like one thing, where would you think I should start? 

Nicole:

I'm so happy you said that because doing one thing is gonna be your superpower. I remember when I was first publishing my first handful of novels, I tried to be everywhere all at once. I was on what was Twitter back then. I was on Facebook, Instagram, podcasts, newsletter, everything. And it spread me so thin that I didn't show up fully in any way in any of those. And I burned out. I closed all the accounts and I said, I'm taking a digital cleanse, I can't do this. 

So back to what you were saying is I recommend finding one platform that makes sense for you that you're happy being on that platform. And also you believe that your ideal readers are going to that same platform.

And then I recommend really thinking about what is this platform's purpose? Is this just community building? Like if I'm on threads, that's really a conversation I'm having with the writer community. It's not me promoting anything. It's not me educating people. It's a true conversation. And that also builds readership because they get to know your values and beliefs. But if I'm on Instagram, I love showing some behind the scenes snapshots of my workspace and things that inspired my book and maybe my writing group, something fun we did together, and that also builds interest, but in a totally different way. Does that answer your question? 

Rhonda:

Yeah, it does. I guess a follow-up question to that. Do I have to dance and point at things? 

Nicole:

Ha ha ha. No, you don't. And I think for 2025, authenticity is the number one driving factor that will separate those from our trying to do the copycat thing and those are trying to bring in their ideal audience be authentically you show up in the way that makes you feel good. And dancing just feels like a whole copycat thing. And it doesn't, it, yeah. And someone might like it, but it's not going to cause them to buy your book or get on your newsletter. 

Rhonda:

Right. Yeah. So important. So let's talk about newsletters. I mean, I know for a fact that, you know, newsletters convert in terms of selling something like a book it just converts better via newsletter than it does on social. We'd go to social for entertainment and you know, but the inbox is kind of where we do business you know, if you like. 

So should I get a newsletter started first before I do social? And what is your opinion of doing one via sub-stock? It's you know, it's been all the rage for a little while. And I know I read an article by Jane Friedman who was like kind of so-so on it because of how it pushes you to commercialize, charge and so on. But what do you think? Like should we be on Substack? 

Nicole:

Yeah, another great question. So whatever platform you're on, let's say you're on social media, it should be driving people to whatever newsletter you put out because those are your, that's your warmer audience. If they're ready to give you their email, they're giving you an invitation to share more. And that can be your personal email that you do through something else.

Or it could be Substack and we know that right now, Substack is really big among readers and writers, especially the writing community. And again, go back to that. Why, don't just jump on there because everyone is a bandwagon. Why do you need to be on there? What are you offering a value to people that follow you? Because we all get those notifications in our inbox like, oh my gosh, there's 15 Substack notifications. I don't have time to read all of this.

So think of why you wanna stand out, why you can stand out. And if you're offering information or value or education or inspiration, a lot of people get on there and say, look, my book is about a character healing. Great, write about that and you can help other people who are seeking ways to heal, but have a why before you decide where you wanna put your newsletter. And yes, I love Substack and I love any kind of individual email as well. 

Rhonda:

I believe strongly in owning your own real estate, you know, like being able to control the list of email addresses that you have because with the, you know, the algorithms on social, you can put something up and not a lot of your followers are gonna see it. Yeah. Which is also, I was saying to someone the other day, like you can repeat your content. Like you can put something up now and then three months from now you put it up and a whole other group of people will see it. You didn't see it the first time. So, yeah, that saves us a little bit of work as well. 

So Nicole, what kind of, let's say that I'm a cozy mystery author and I've got book one of a series and I'm working on book two. I'm thinking of a client in mind right now. And I wanna start building my author platform. I'm indie published. What kinds of content, you know, other than like a carousel or a reel, but like what kinds of stuff can I create to engage people in thinking about, you know, first getting to know and like me as an author, but then also consider buying my book when it comes out. 

Nicole:

Yeah, this is the fun part, right? So the first thing I would say is that authors should ask themselves, when was the last time they updated their bio? Whether that's on Instagram or your website or, you know, Substack update that bio to reflect exactly where you are in your journey and what you're about to offer, whether it's a book or some background information behind the scenes, update your bio. And the next thing is make sure that's consistent across everywhere you show up online. 

I can't tell you how many authors have one bio on Instagram and then a totally other confusing bio on Substack. It's like, who are you? And what are you trying to share with me? 

Rhonda:

Right. Yeah.

Nicole:

And then the next thing is share parts of your journey because you've got readers and writers following you for different reasons. They want to see your process. They want to see if you're cozy mystery writer share the cozy mysteries. You're loving right now some book recommendations share where you're getting into your inspiration share your writing process share the hard parts. That's when I talked about authenticity for 2025 people can relate if you say look, this is a hard day. 

Like I'm stuck in my book. I have writer's block. The kids are running around screaming. I don't have quiet peace of mind. Share that because people will say, oh yeah, me too. I'm not alone. This is the part of the community where we can share our wins and our losses together. 

Rhonda:

I think that's so important, like not to pretend that your life is perfect. No, it's because it goes back to that authenticity that you were speaking about. I, we live in such a curated world, you know, and I really appreciate it. Yeah, the folks I follow who are real, who are authentic. And I feel like I'm getting to know them, you know? 

Nicole:

Yes, and then you want to support them and you're excited about their book when it comes out. 

Rhonda:

Yeah, I can remember this one author I follow, who I love, I basically buy anything she ever puts out. And she shared, you know, when she had a new grandchild. Yeah. And, you know, photos of like her back garden in the summertime, and you know, like I felt like I was getting a little window into her world. Yeah, basically made me more of a fan. 

Nicole:

I love that. You know, one of the authors that I adore is Barbara Kingsolver and she shares her garden and she'll show you all the vegetables that she grew that week and then show you a little snippet of you know some beautiful scenery and she doesn't share every piece of her personal life online but just her writing and her gardening alone make me feel closer to her. It makes me feel excited about what her work in progress is and maybe you know, bookmark her next book so I can purchase it. It's those things that bring me closer. 

Rhonda:

Yeah. And I think also if people have pets, like if you have cats, dogs, ferrets, hamsters, whatever you've got, horses, like pimp those pets. Like we want to know, you know, that you've got, you know, the name of your dog and we want to see them. And I think of Savannah Gilbo, she's always showing her golden retrievers. And they're so gorgeous. And I'm like, I'm here for that content. I just love it. 

Nicole:

And she shares how she makes their homemade, beautiful, um, organic dog food. And people ask her all the time, can you share the recipe? And that is building community as well. 

Rhonda:

Building engagement and community. Totally. So, do you think that there's benefit in, you know, you mentioned Threads and how Threads is kind of more of a conversation with the writing community. Do you think that you should be on some social platforms, whether it's thread or God help me X or whatever that are a little or LinkedIn maybe that are a little more about networking in the writing community in addition to trying to find your readers? 

Nicole:

I do only if you feel as an author, you have the bandwidth to show up in more than one space. I always say start small, don't get overwhelmed. And when people say, oh gosh, I got to start Instagram, they get a little downtrodden. It's like, look, what if you only posted once a week and you shared just a snapshot of your writing space and told me a few sentences about what was going on with your work in progress? And that's doable, right? 

But if I want to connect with other writers, sure, jump on threads and say, hey, I'm trying to find my other romance authors out there. Where are you? Let's connect. And that is also a supportive way to kind of keep your, your momentum going, thinking, okay, I'm starting to build that community. We're sharing what's going on. Maybe someone told me about a conference or a fun podcast to listen to. So yeah, there's benefits to doing both. 

Rhonda:

Yeah, I love, I think community is so important. So I definitely, you know, always encourage people to start building that community. You just never know where the next idea, the next, oh, did you hear this, you know, someone forward something from an agent. And now, you know, that agent's open for queries similar to your book or whatever, you know? Yeah. So yeah. 

You and your friend are part together, you are Bookworks. Can you talk a little bit about Bookworks and the VIP day thing that you do? That sounds really cool. 

Nicole:

Oh yeah. So as you know, I'm a book coach and developmental editor and what I was finding more and more is that my writers would work really hard, craft this beautiful manuscript and then come back to me and say, now what?

And so they needed to either think about self-publishing or reach to a small press or try and get a literary agent. And in all three of those scenarios, they needed to start building a platform, not just to look attractive, but also find out who their readership was, start to get some excitement about their book. 

And so my close friend who is kind of a branding guru, and I put our heads together and we started something called bookworks.co. And really what we help authors do is build their author platform and or pitch literary agents. And we do these VIP Done-for-You days where we really speed you ahead and get you all the strategy, all the know-how. We do these amazing calendars of step-by-step of how people can do these things to really launch them to the next level. 

Rhonda:

Okay, and what's involved in a VIP day? Like, let's say I say, oh, I would like one of those. How does it work? How am I? Yeah, I don't think I understand the concept of like, what a VIP day would be. 

Nicole:

Yeah, so instead of working months and months, you know, like a monthly coaching thing, we wanna get this done, you know, within one day. So we'll start with an exploratory call, talk about the writer's goals and wishes, where they are, where they wanna be. And then we have them fill out a very lengthy questionnaire and we go back, Gretchen and I, who run Bookworks, and we actually build a whole strategy for you.

And in that strategy is a whole list of comparables, comps we recommend. We dive deep into what are other people, like who might you share an audience with? What are they doing online? How are they connecting with their readers? Here's where we think you should live based on what you love and what your audience loves. And then here's a step-by-step calendar of actually what you're gonna do each month or each week to get there and build that audience quickly. And so we, at the end of the VIP day, we meet back up with them for a long session. We hand over this pretty lengthy packet and we talk all about the strategy and the steps and then those persons are empowered to go off and build their audience and build their platform by themselves. 

Rhonda:

Oh, great. So you developed the strategy for me and then show me like what to do next. And it's, I don't have to sit there and go, I wonder what I should do, you know? Yeah. 

Nicole:

Exactly. 

Rhonda:

All right, great. I'll put a link to that in the in the show notes, because I just think that is so super interesting. So I just wanted to close out by asking you, like, what are the top three mistakes that you see people making when it comes to building an author platform? 

Nicole:

Yeah, the top one, I'm going to go back to like I'm going to be a parrot and repeat myself, the top one is not knowing your why is just to like start into tactics and like, I'm just going to start posting stuff just to post, know your why, know your audience and where they live.

And then the next mistake I see is spreading yourself too thin. So find one platform that you can commit to and be consistent. If you're everywhere all at once, you'll never be consistent because it's just really hard to have that much energy. 

And then I think the third one is is not believing in yourself that you're worthy enough to be out there. You know, we all have that imposter syndrome. You are worthy. You have a story that's on your heart that makes it worthy. And so just start small and share one bit at a time. And know there's other people out there that will be interested. 

Rhonda:

I love that. And I really appreciate this emphasis on start small and do what you can in order to stay consistent because otherwise I think it's so overwhelming. And we really do think we got to like be doing reels and dancing and posting and pointing, we're just not sure. And it all becomes so overwhelming to the point where we choose, we procrastinate, right? We're like, I'm gonna do that later. Yeah, totally. So that's so important. 

Thanks so much for talking to me about this today, Nicole. It was really great to have you. 

Nicole:

Thank you. I loved the conversation.

Outro:

Thanks so much for hanging out with me today and for listening all the way to the end. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of The Resilient Writers Radio Show. While you're here, I would really appreciate it if you'd consider leaving a rating and review of the show. You can do that in whatever app you're using to listen to the show right now, and it just takes a few minutes. 

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