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Resilient Writers Radio Show: Interview with Kirsten McNeill – Full Episode Transcript

Intro:

Well, hey there, Writer. Welcome to The Resilient Writers Radio Show. I'm your host, Rhonda Douglas. And this is the podcast for writers who want to create and sustain a writing life they love. 

Because let's face it, the writing life has its ups and downs, and we want to not just write, but also to be able to enjoy the process so that we'll spend more time with our butt-in-chair getting those words on the page. 

This podcast is for writers who love books and everything that goes into the making of them. For writers who want to learn and grow in their craft and improve their writing skills. Writers who want to finish their books and get them out into the world so their ideal readers can enjoy them. Writers who want to spend more time in that flow state. 

Writers who want to connect with other writers to celebrate and be in community, in this crazy roller coaster ride, we call the writing life. We are resilient writers. We're writing for the rest of our lives and we're having a good time doing it. So welcome, Writer. I'm so glad you're here. Let's jump right into today's show.

Rhonda:

Well, hey there, Writer. Welcome back to another episode of The Resilient Writers Radio Show. I'm so glad you're here. Today we're gonna talk about how to find confidence in your writing, which is a question a lot of folks wonder about, I think, as writers. So with me today, I have Kirsten McNeill. Kirsten is a confidence coach and book editor and she supports writers to empower themselves to create their writing lifestyle one that fills them with passion and unrelenting confidence. And she loves to say you are worthy of your desired journey. So after graduating college, she became a copywriter, published a couple of books, but then she unpublished them because they didn't reflect who she was. And she became a full service book editor. She has launched Worthy Writers Editing, and she also has a podcast called Worthy Writers, which you're gonna wanna check out. You can search for it in the app you're listening to this podcast on today. And she's also a trained life and wellness coach and practices as a confidence coach. So welcome. I'm so glad you're here, Kirsten. 

Kirsten:

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. 

Rhonda:

So as I was saying, like I often feel that so many writers are really good writers. Like they have great story ideas. When I look at the writing they're doing, it's good stuff, but they lack confidence in themselves as writers. So what are, but first of all, what do you think it feels like? Like when we say confidence in our writing, what are we looking for? What is it we want? 

Kirsten:

Yeah, I think confidence and happiness really go together and those just feel good moments that we have and when we are searching for confidence, we essentially just want to stop questioning ourselves, stop telling ourselves these stories of like, oh, I'm not good enough. Like who's gonna wanna read this? And those are the common things that the writers I work with have said of just like, I just can't do this. There's just like too much to do to publish a book. And there's so many things that can come up. And all we want is to, you know, write hours a day and just be able to enjoy that and enjoy our creativity and not worry so much about everybody else, right? 

Rhonda:

So true. Yeah, and I think there's like this cycle where, you know, self-doubt leads to self-sabotage, which leads back to self-doubt because you, like, your brain's always looking for evidence you can do something and you just gave it evidence you couldn't, and so now you're like, no, see, I was right.

So when you're working with writers who want to build confidence in their writing, where do we start? Like what's the first thing we need to be doing? 

Kirsten:

The first thing that comes to mind is mindset, which is very broad term, but it is definitely a core of how we can help ourselves move forward in our writing. Because when we're writers, we live in our brains a lot, essentially, when we're thinking up ideas and characters and we're talking to these characters and it's a very solo activity a lot of the times, especially in the early stages. So we don't really have anyone, you know, 24-7 like, yeah, you got this, like having that cheerleader with you all the time. So you have to become your own cheerleader and really get down to the purpose of why you're writing. Because when you have that goal, that motivation, that purpose that can stack up and lead to that confidence and happiness because you really have that clarity of what you want to do. 

You know, when you're just kind of exploring and maybe you're just starting out as a writer and you're still trying to find yourself what genre do you like this and that, you might feel lost a little bit. So when it's in that exploration stage, it kind of can feel overwhelming at times. So when you really have that clarity, when you have that and really owning that and embracing that. And that can really help you keep going on your journey when you have that just maybe just one statement in your mind of just like, I am a thriller writer. I am a romance writer, just something that's very set and stone for you to hold onto that really helps you move forward.

Rhonda:

I love that. I mean, I'm a big believer in the power of why, you know, the whole, you can find the Simon Sinek talk on it, but like basically beginning with why, why is it your story matters? Why is it your writing matters? And I, I feel like some of us need permission to, to let that be okay, to let it be okay that you have a dream of writing a book and publishing it. And it's not a selfish thing to do, right? Because you're going to spend all of this time on it and it's time you could be spending with your people, on your job, you know, your caretaking responsibility. You could be spending this time on all these other things. And instead here you are quote unquote selfishly writing your romance novel. 

What do you think about that kind of like thought of, I don't know if I even should do this. I don't know if I even have permission to do this. Is it selfish? 

Kirsten:

That permission piece is always going to be external. We want the celebration. We want people to say, yeah, you can definitely do this. Like, go ahead. Like, this is what the journey is going to be like. This is the awards you're going to get. We want the feel good moments. And we want that from other people because then it kind of gives us permission to do it ourselves. And I think a lot of times confidence gets confused with being conceited or prideful or those more negative connotations of that word and being confident is really just like celebrating who you are. It's not saying like, oh, I'm a writer, which means you can't, or I'm a writer, which means you're bad at this or things like that, right? All it's saying is that inner validation. And you know, I'm a writer. I believe in myself. I'm awesome. And just really embracing all of that, because when we search for it so much from other people and you know, I've done this too. Like I want, you know my teachers in college give me a great grade or, you know, win that writing contest and kind of find that. So, and it's great to have those things. And if you have that, that's amazing. And it's really important to have those cheerleaders, but to really find that within yourself and be like, yeah, like I'm awesome. I'm, I'm writing what I love and I'm on this journey. That's really exciting.

Rhonda:

Yeah, so the first thing is starting with why, and then kind of like claiming it for yourself. And doing the, am I hearing you right? Like really embracing the thing that you love that makes you you? 

Kirsten:

Yeah, and really like not being afraid to tell people about it or talk about it until you're blue in the face, right? Cause I think that that's another thing that comes in when people think it's like, it's prideful, it's, you know, you don't want to show off, those kinds of thoughts come in and know, like I said, just because you're celebrating yourself, that doesn't mean you're trying to tear other people down, right? It's just like, in this world and, and, you know, such a mass market of so many people can publish books and, you know, it's just very, very saturated industry, you know, you want to be able to stand out and you have to kind of define what standing out means to you and what makes you special and what makes you feel special. So really just saying like, yeah, like I'm a writer, I'm going to talk about it to everyone that I know, which can definitely be nerve wracking if you're just starting out, you know, the people closest to you, you're like, oh, what are they going to think of me and all that kind of stuff. But just really like, the more you talk about it, the more comfortable you're going to get anyways, because it just becomes that habit, right? 

Rhonda:

I love that kind of like embracing the obsession, you know, let yourself become obsessed by writing by and by writing the thing that you love. Yeah, I think too many of us kind of feel like we should write certain kinds of things, like especially people who, you know, maybe did schooling for writing or whatever, you kind of like come out of it thinking, oh, I should write this kind of novel, but maybe like you really like Westerns and you should write Westerns, or maybe you really like, you know, Regency romance and you should write Regency romance. Like I love this idea of like just you do you and obsess over the thing that you love and that's part of what gives you confidence. 

So what is the role of craft in relation to confidence in knowing how to write good dialogue, knowing how to construct a story properly? Like what's the relationship of craft to confidence? How do they relate to each other? 

Kirsten:

I love that question. And I think definitely having knowledge and reading a couple of books on craft knowing where your strengths and weaknesses are. So say you're really good at dialogue, but your character development process might need some work. So getting to know yourself and also being okay with starting the writing process without having all the knowledge first. 

When it comes to writing, there's so much you can learn. So many different people you can learn from, podcasts, books, all this kind of stuff that can help you practice your craft but the best learning tool for writing is just to write and see what's working, see what's not, get some feedback from other people. So it's really just having that balance of, where do I feel, you know, maybe just choose one thing of like, where do I feel is my weakness, like my weakest point of writing? 

So maybe it's, you know, certain plot points in a certain genre, you kind of focus on that for a little bit as you're, you know, developing your stories and learning as you go, because that's, it's. Writing is a messy process, you know, it's something that everyone's going to have their own process that feels good for them. And it's just doing it as you go, learning as you go. 

You know, even the most masterful writers are going to experience new things, learn new things from other people. And so it's just finding that process that feels really good to you and just writing as much as you can. And when you're writing, not everything needs to be publish worthy, right? You can just write just for the practice of it.

Rhonda:

Oh, I love that reminder because I think that we do kind of get in that state of when I sit down today, you know, what I'm writing has to be perfect and totally publishable. And it's, I think it's like, it's because we love books. Like we, you know, typically we're readers and we love reading. And when we pick a book off the shelf, it's been through a process to become as good as it is it did not start out like that. And I think we forget that. So there's definitely something about that. And also, do you think we have trouble letting ourselves be imperfect and not that great at something? 

Sometimes I hear people say, well, how do, how do we even know that I'm any good? But how do you feel about that? Like, is it okay to like sit in this space of not being very good right now and just. Yeah, how do you feel about that? 

Kirsten:

Yeah, for sure. I mean, we all have to start somewhere, right? Like, I don't believe that there are writers of just like, you know, you're born perfect at writing, you have this natural talent, you're a prodigy type thing. I mean, there might be someone that comes up once in a blue moon who can write a perfect first draft. But perfect is so subjective. Like, what does that mean? What is perfect art? What is this perfect book? And so it's, it's really the imperfect and being okay with the learning process and being okay with it taking a lot of time. 

Because I find that when you're afraid to write or there's something that's holding you back, if you're not writing, that's taking away a lot of time that you could be learning and growing, right? So just being able to, you know, sit with the imperfect and, you know, figuring out the best place for you to start, what's going to feel good on your journey and just be okay with, you know. Today I'm gonna write a hundred words and we'll see what happens and just being okay with that openness and who knows what's gonna happen, not being so set with the end results. And like you mentioned, not comparing those published books to your first draft that you're working on, right? Cause like you said, it takes a long process to get to that point. 

Rhonda:

Yeah, I think it's so for some of us, especially if you were like a good student. You know what I mean? Like you, you did the homework, you got the A's and you were a good student and you got praised your whole life for being smart and turning in good work. You know, I think it, you kind of build up a tendency towards perfectionism. And so you want everything that you do to be really, really good. And you want it now, like you want it to be good now without having to work on it. 

And people judge themselves really harshly. Like, oh, I wrote, somebody said to me yesterday, I wrote a sentence and I could feel how clunky it was. It's like, well, it's a draft. It's allowed to be clunky. Like you're allowed to mess around. You're allowed to screw it up. You're allowed to not get it right. You're allowed to learn and grow and adapt and become a better writer over time. But we put so much pressure on ourselves. Yeah.

So I love what you're saying about, you're basically saying like enjoy the process over obsessing over the product. Do I have that right? 

Kirsten:

Yeah. And I feel like we get so hung up on titles sometime of just like, you know, if you were labeled a good student as a kid, or, you know, you're labeled, you're labeling yourself as a writer and people have these expectations of, oh, okay, you're a writer. So that means that you're always like creative and open and spiritual and, you know, you're writing every day and you have a typewriter in the corner things that come up that like, oh, okay, these people that I love have these expectations of me and I wanna meet them. So it's just like those pressures that we put on ourselves again, right?

Rhonda:

Yeah, you just, yeah. As you said that, I'm like, I don't have a typewriter. Like, am I a real writer? I don't have a typewriter. But I feel like that's what we do. We're like, am I cut out for this? Because I don't ABC of that thing that we saw famous writer who's been writing for 20 years do. So for sure. So what are some of the, like, do you have any practical tools and tips of things we can do on an ongoing basis, either in our process, to continue to foster confidence in our writing. 

Kirsten:

Yeah, yeah, there's a couple of things that come to mind. The first one being knowing your schedule. I like to talk about a flexible schedule where we all know what our daily routines are to an extent, right? You know, there might be something that comes up that's like you get sick or you know you go to a concert things that don't always come up but you know they you want to fit them into your schedule. 

So writing is kind of like that where we know it's something we want to do but where does it fit right so kind of getting to know your energy i know for myself i work a lot better in the morning and that's where my creative energy is at best so getting to know that and getting to know you know where can i fit five minutes, or ten minutes of writing.

And once you kind of know when you can write, try starting with a little like routine to just really like get your brain into that mindset of writing. You know, for me, my routine is just like, you know, get a cup of tea, make an intention for the the writing session. So maybe I'm, you know, I want to finish chapter one today or I want to write 500 words today. So things like that, that can set yourself up for success, basically have those manageable goals and then you reach them, that feels good, it feels like a great win and that can encourage you to keep moving forward. 

So I think too, some writers have this tendency of creating these big goals and they have these deadlines that they want for themselves and that's great, but if it's not realistic for the lifestyle you have, then that kind of sets you back and that reduces your motivation. So just having that schedule, having a little routine beforehand to prepare your environment, prepare yourself for success. And maybe you like positive mantras to really motivate yourself and just to get yourself in a good mood or maybe journal for a little bit just to get some motivation going. Just little things can really help just to build that into a habit. And before you know it, you've got your book finished, right?

Rhonda:

Yeah, and you're basically, you're building an identity as you go, right? With every different, you know, you say to yourself, oh, I'm a writer and a first year brain goes, ha ha. But then like, here I am writing and thinking about writing and talking about writing and reading books about writing, going to workshops on writing. And here I am today writing 250 more words, you know, and you just, you build up your identity through the actions that you take. So yeah, I think that's so important. 

You have a workbook, right? Like it's, it's pretty substantive. Can you tell us a little bit about this workbook that you have to help writers, um, find their confidence? 

Kirsten:

Yeah. So it's called the Feed Your Horses Confidence Thought Exercise. So it's a horse analogy. Um, I love animals, so those kind of love a horse pop up. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. So basically it's a thought exercise where you're just choosing one of your more negative thoughts and say like, I'm not good enough. And you relate it to one of the four horses that these thoughts are just like running around. Imagine like a racetrack, that circle loop or oval loop, whatever, they're just, they're stuck on that racetrack and what are you gonna do with them? And I find even for myself, your mind is racing with thoughts, but it tends to be the same thoughts over and over again. 

So just identifying this thought. Identifying where it comes from, whether it's stress or criticism or just things like that, that, you know, what's happening with this thought? Where is it coming from? Right? So this workbook just really helps you analyze that, figure out what to do with it. And then at the end, you're building it a nice cozy barn to live in and, you know, be able to work through that thought. And I find with the thoughts that we have, the ones that are common, they're going to come up again. Maybe in a different form, but you know, it's not about eradicating it completely, because I'm not sure if that's entirely possible of just like, you know, you're always going to be that positive upbeat person, you have bad days, and that's totally normal, right? 

So it's just working to figure out where this thought's coming from. How do we handle it? How can we treat ourselves better next time? And just give it a nice place to live and understand it and decide what we want to say to ourselves instead next time. So instead of saying, I'm not good enough, to say I'm a learning writer, I'm a growing writer, something that you can really believe in and that just helps you stick to your confidence. 

Rhonda:

I love that because I think that so often we say, oh, you've got to work with your thoughts, you can't focus on your negative thoughts, you've got to shift your thoughts, you've got to have a positive mindset about your writing, but like nobody ever tells you how to do that. So I love that you have a workbook to help people you know, kind of go through that step by step. So I will link to that in the show notes. It's totally free and that will help people be connected to you and your work on building your confidence as writers as well. And I'll also link out to the Worthy Writers podcast so that you can add that to your listening playlist as you're thinking about writing throughout the week. 

Thanks for being with me, Kirsten. It was really great to talk to you. 

Kirsten:

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm really glad we had this opportunity.

Outro:

Thanks so much for hanging out with me today and for listening all the way to the end. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of The Resilient Writers Radio Show. While you're here, I would really appreciate it if you'd consider leaving a rating and review of the show. You can do that in whatever app you're using to listen to the show right now, and it just takes a few minutes. 

Your ratings and reviews tell the podcast algorithm gods that yes, this is a great show, definitely recommend it to other writers. And that will help us reach new listeners who might need a boost in their writing lives today as well. So please take a moment and leave a review. I'd really appreciate it. And I promise to read every single one. Thank you so much.